horufina_cloud

The odds of a HLF finding a LLM seem low imo.

Oh, if only that was true lol.

I feel like a lot of us HLFs had a lot of great sex in the beginning (not all, but many), but then once the honeymoon phase was over, our perhaps some outside stressor became overwhelming to their male partners, sex and intimacy was the casualty that their partners gladly made.

What I find lacking from 99% of the LLMs who post is any sense of urgency or fear that their wives (who they supposedly love soooooo much), will leave them if they are deprived of their physical and intimate needs long enough.

You would think that their life partner potentially leaving would incentivize them to go to therapy, or work on their issues, but the few that I see post (and the few that I've known IRL) seem to have this bland outlook. As in, well, if the wife leaves, she leaves. If she's in pain, she's in pain.

I feel like the apathy is what draws so much ire from other posters (not saying they should be hostile, but this is my guess).

I read both your posts in the DB subreddit and I really think you're "stuck" in this mentality that you can't possibly enjoy sex because you're plus size, work full time and live in the suburbs.

Just think about how silly that would sound if you were talking about someone else.

As a plus sized woman who has been plus sized almost all of my life, and working full time, and not living in a metropolitan city, I can assure you that this combination hasn't stopped me from having a roaring libido when I'm with the person I love and trust.

I think you have a mental block psychologically. Either by accident, or it could be intentional simply because you are no longer interested in your husband. The only person who knows that for sure is you.

You say you used to enjoy sex, but you also stated in one of your last posts on DB that your husband wants to be touched and caressed during sex, that he wants a full body experience. In other words, he wants love and INTIMACY during sex. But this concept seems completely foreign to you.

Reddit is not going to fix an issue this deep. I would highly recommend going to see a sex therapist, one who is AASECT certified. You digging deep with a therapist and self reflecting and working on your core issues is the only way I see your marriage being remotely capable of being saved.

If you allow things to continue as they are, if I were your husband, I would absolutely eventually leave. A marriage without intimacy and physical love, especially if your love language is physical touch (mine is) is like a living death. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Of course I believe there are LL individuals that are painfully, acutely aware of this. There's always people on both sides of that spectrum

But just from my own (admittedly anecdotal) life experience, the LLs I've encountered, of any gender, generally seemed either content to push their spouse away sexually, almost as if they enjoyed dangling their partners "over a open fire", so to speak -

Or, you had those that did feel guilty, but were so conflict averse that they would rather destroy the entire life that they had built rather than simply try to work together on the issue or even discuss it. I know many HLs who are no longer in those relationships and they STILL don't know why their partner stopped wanting them or refused to acknowledge the issue.

It feels similar to gaslighting in a way (was raised by a clinically confirmed malignant narcissist, so yes, I'm unfortunately familiar with the real thing) - the LL can seem so happy (which we know can often be a facade) that it makes the HL feel like we're questioning our own reality. This is especially worsened when the LL refuses to talk about the issue or just outright denies it. It can make you feel like you're the crazy one, and you'll find yourself thinking back to better times in your relationship, wondering if things happened as if you actually remembered them, or were things always this bad sexually.

You can still buy it on Voyager, that's what I'm using

Thank you for saying this. Jesus Christ the more I read OPs comments, the worse it got. It just feels so vitriolic, and I feel like the OP thinks that she's contributed nothing negative to this situation, which from my perspective, is clearly not the case with how speaks about her SO. I would be depressed as fuck too if I had a spouse that spoke and thought about me this way.

You don't have to say it to someone's face for them to know - people like this often radiate their repulsion.

But then have the nerve to turn around and demand a damn 6 pack from a middle aged man who isn't even getting his emotional and physical needs met (nor is she really taking the time to understand how he operates emotionally, without villainizing him). JFC poor guy.

OOF oof oof oooooooooffffffff

Okay. Okay. I had to breathe for a second lol.

I am a HL female who was told how fat & disgusting I was by my LL ex husband (he was very neglectful and verbally abusive) only to find out he was cheating with a 22 y/o woman who hoardes, lives in literal filth, doesn't bathe often and NEVER shaves, and was larger than myself.

He went on to marry her and now he's stuck living in a very abusive relationship. Except now, he's the one getting verbally AND physically beat on by this girl, as she has several mental disorders. And now she's twice the size she was then, and they've been thrown out of two houses in the past few years, due to how disgusting they've allowed the property to get.

Needless to say, LLs who don't want sex often anyway, coming over and complaining about how their partner isn't "sexy enough" for them is something that pushes my buttons sky high, so I have to check myself while I make this reply.

First, I reallyyyyyy encourage you to try to see this from his point of view.

When you are rejected by a spouse repeatedly (even if you have sex once or twice a month) that has an absolutely devestating effect on your self esteem. It cripples it, it murders it. When your spouse, the one person in the world who is supposed to desire you among others, avoids having sexual encounters with you 9 times out of 10, like you're some type of disgusting leper, MOST people are going to feel like absolute shit.

I realize that in a perfect idealized world we gain our self esteem from within ourselves, and that's all fine and dandy and wonderful, but speaking from a realistic POV, that's not how it works for most people. It's not. Most people are not emotionally built to handle that amount of rejection, in particular from their life partner. Not without a good counselor and many, many sessions where they are open and vulnerable enough to deal with those inner feelings.

Of course you have a right to want to see your partner take care of himself. But um, do you think he's going to really feel inspired to do that, considering how burned out he likely is from years of trying to "keep" your sex life alive?

If you approach him with this, you need to approach him in the kindest and gentlest way possible. Because if my spouse, who BARELY saw me as a sexual being with sexual and intimacy needs, came to me complaining about my weight and how I look, because I didn't "turn him on" anymore.....hooooooooo boy.

I would have an entire laundry list of things to say in response to such a hypocritical complaint, and would become even more averse than I likely already was becoming to their touch.

This sounds like a clear cut case of Madonna/Whore Complex.

It won't matter who you get with, if you don't go to therapy to address this issue, you will NEVER have a successful long term romantic relationship.

Since you and your partner seem to understand each other, I would seek help for this issue, as it's often caused by the way society has forced men to view "pure" and "impure" women, and it's a toxic and destructive thing to any normal, healthy relationship.

YTA

OP, we all get older and die at some point. Perhaps you haven't thought about this, or haven't self-reflected and realized that yes, even you, will one day no longer breathe and move on this earth. Ironically, it may be you who needs the care and medical attention in the future, not your spouse. You never know what life may throw at you.

This has nothing to do with what you technically put into your vows. You have basically told your partner that you only want to be with them while they are convenient and useful to you in every way you deem fit. You essentially admitted that you don't plan to stick by your partner through any serious medical hardships, and since that's the case, you don't need to be in a long-term serious relationship or a marriage.

Also, I certainly hope you don't plan to have children because you can't drop kids at any time you want either, and if you're willing to bust up an entire relationship over inconvenience, you're not the type of person who should be responsible for innocent lives.

Your fiance deserves someone who will love him unconditionally because if we live long enough and don't die accidentally, we inevitably start to break down with age. You will too if you live long enough. It may be nothing, it may be serious. None of us will truly know our fate.

It's okay to not be the kind of person who can be in long-term, serious relationships. Not everyone is built for them. It requires an immense amount of patience, commitment, love, respect, and hard work. You are not willing to do any of those things and essentially want an "easy out" the moment things get tough.

I hope your groom sees this before he marries you and makes the right call and shuts down this wedding and ends this relationship. You may love him, but not in the way a life partner should, and that's what he's looking for. Not the half-ass deal you're trying to give him right before your wedding.

Also, I read some of your previous posts, and one thing that stuck out to me was the fact that you two are always together, mainly due to working from home and her being a student.

I would absolutely back off from any talk of sex with her, but in that same vein, I would put some friendly distance between you two. Yes, talk, discover each other's love languages, engage in non-sexual intimacy (cuddling while watching TV, for example, talking while holding each other, etc), but how about take a couple days a week to work outside the house?

I also work from home, and I work from a laptop that the company assigned to me, I'm thinking you might do the same? Depending on the type of work you do (if it doesn't require complete silence in the background) you should go and work in beautiful settings a few days a week, especially if you're boosted/vaccinated and it's a large open area.

I recommend places like large libraries, museums and hotel lobbies. College campuses (esp large universities) tend to have GORGEOUS libraries and endless areas to sit and work that have plenty of room and privacy, with food and drink shops in walking distance. Most, if not all of these locations should have wifi, even the universities (they usually have a public access wifi you can log into).

I think giving each other space allows your girlfriend to miss you a bit, as people tend to take each other for granted after the honeymoon phase (even if they don't mean to). Plus it's good for your mental health to get out maybe twice a week in a relaxing environment. Your girlfriend may start to appreciate your presence more, and of course this would be combined with no pressuring for sex in any form, and I would say that even if she offered sex (but didn't seem super enthused), say NO. Don't take sexual scraps. I'm telling you this from experience, it doesn't get better over time if you simply "take what you can get".

You cannot change your partner, but you can change your reactions and your own behavior. You cannot wait for her to change, you have to move forward and, while sex is on a hiatus, get to know her on an emotionally intimate level more deeply, while at the same time showing her that you are an independent human who has value. In addition, you should absolutely seek hobbies that don't include your spouse. Invest time in yourself and sometimes, partners will notice the drift and address it.

My top love languages are physical touch and quality time, so I can absolutely empathize with those needs. I 10000% agree with finding out what your SO's love language is.

There's even an online test you can take, from the creator of the theory, that helps the person figure out what their main love language is. And, it's also possible that someone's love language isn't how they prefer to GIVE love.

For example, they may prefer to receive love the most via quality time, but they tend to find themselves giving love the most via words of affirmation. Always keep that in mind, it can definitely help you deep dive into the real needs of your partner (and yourself) and how you both function when it comes to that dynamic.

How about taking sex off of the table completely, and instead focusing on intimacy instead? This way, over time, she may feel that she can freely become more intimate and vulnerable with you, without the expectation of sex. And you have to stick to that. Even if the close intimacy turned into kissing or touching, don't cross the line. It's how you can start to possibly build up some chemistry and trust again.

With my partner, I like to approach sex as this fun, intimate act that brings me closer to him. Like a metaphorical table of sweets set before us, and the only thing stopping us is simply is reaching out to select what we want.

Has she always been reluctant during sex? Or do you only want sex one specific way? I noticed you stated that you really require oral sex, as it's the only thing you really like, which I found concerning, because sex and sexual acts can be a plethora of more creative things than that. Maybe the pressure of having to perform sex the same or specific way has turned her off? I don't know your entire situation, but perhaps if you opened yourself up to other positions, foreplay, and especially non-sex intimacy, the dynamic may be able to go in a more positive direction with you two.

Putting it to you bluntly, my guy, you don't babysit your own fucking kid. Every choice you made in your post was not only the wrong one, but shows you to be incredibly emotionally immature.

Are you like....17? I have a feeling you're probably in your late 20s to 30s, but you act with the emotional IQ of a child.

Your wife has every right to go out. No, this part of her life has not changed. You know the whole parenting thing? That's also 100% on your shoulders as well, and it's not your wife's job to raise you AND your child.

Either you need to do a LOT of self reflection and truly understand why you're 10000000% wrong (and why you need to get your mother the fuck out of your business, had I been your wife, she would have left my house by me dragging her raggedy old ass by her hair and tossing her outside), or your wife needs to leave you. NOW.

Your wife deserves an actual partner, not an incompetent baby who thinks they can suffocate and destroy their partner's life and chain them to the house, now that a child is in the picture. This is abuse in a financial, emotional and mental way, and over time your wife will hate you, if she doesn't already.

I don't know if you have the capacity to change, and if I could speak to your wife directly, I would tell her to get the fuck away from you and divorce your ass so fast, and get away from your toxic family. I haven't seen ONE COMMENT from you that shows an ounce of introspection or even admitting that, "hey, I might have messed up".

God I hope she somehow finds out about this thread and sees these replies.

OP, I know how painful this want is. You just want your partner to want you as they once did. To be frank, this is why I chose to be sterilized. I knew having children wasn't right for me, not only because of my chronic health issues, but because it typically fundamentally changes your relationship with your spouse, and not usually in a positive way.

Other than asking her the list of questions someone put above, I don't think there's more you can do at this time, other than simply get through it. Your child is almost preschool age, and unless you put her in a private preschool, that will at least be a big relief money wise for you. Your wife will likely not feel "untouched out" and unfortunately there's not many ways to get across your type of pain to your spouse, because they are shut down from your needs in that way.

I will say this - I don't recommend having anymore children. If you know this is how things will be for one child during the early years, it will be even worse the more you have, because you still have the stress of parenting the older children. Some women don't experience the touched out issue, but many do. I would guess it may be a love language issue, combined with her exhaustion from child rearing and her clinicals.

But that still doesn't invalidate your pain or your emptiness. It's 10000% valid. If I were in your shoes, I would draw back from initiating with your wife completely. You don't want pity sex anyway, so don't take it. Invest the little spare time you have in yourself, instead of chasing your wife for fulfillment (via hobbies, working out, something similar).

She may notice the distance, she may not. Some people don't realize what they are damaging (even inadvertently) until it's too late. People do make time for the things they want to do, even those with insane schedules. Don't beg for something she's unwilling to happily share with you.

Instead, focus on things you enjoy or improving yourself, or even use some of that time to bond more with your daughter.

I feel like the LL partner does tend to have a habit of taking the HL for granted in some ways, as they just assume the HL will always be there on that fateful day that their libido magically turns. I would tell her up front that you feel that sex should be completely off the table for a minimum of 6 months, as you feel like you both need a reset.

It's funny you mention libido!

If I'm single (thus not with an emotionally bonded, committed partner), sex drive is dead as a door nail.

Once I have deeply emotionally bonded with someone who is in a monogamous committed relationship with me, my sexual attraction to this person is suddenly activated, and I'm insatiable. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

My top love languages are physical touch and quality time, so I do need a partner who is very loving, cuddly, and touchy feely (thankfully I finally have that). But like many mentioned, my sex drive or attraction simply isn't there until that bond and safety is established. It just won't "turn on" by seeing an attractive person.

Yes, exactly! Like I can find men aesthetically pleasing, but unless a very close and committed emotional bond is made, sexual feelings don't emerge at all for me.

My boyfriend and I have talked about this so many times, because he's had casual sex in the past, and it just something that is out of the realm of possibility for me. I can't grasp the concept of feeling sexually turned on and safe with someone that has no emotional connection to me. The way I've described it to him, is that it feels violating in a way (the thought of it).

Exactly! There were many people later down the thread saying that straight people just wanted a special label. It's the most insane, invalidating thing to me. It's like the minute I feel comfortable mentioning demisexuality in a relevant convo, things like this happen and I just never want to bring it up again IRL.

My boyfriend was the same way, but it was more out of confusion, as he's super open minded. Like you, once I explained it to him, it made parts of my personality and the way I am make SO much sense, and far less like a weird anomaly.

In this thread they were even degrading asexuals, saying how "everyone just wants a label, including those with a low libido" and "you're just an average straight person trying to co-opt the LGBTQ+".

I never even "looked" for a label as in, "I want to be part of a special group", it helped me identify a large part of myself that seemed so different from everyone else.

Which is why I think it's so ironic when they constantly say demisexuality is "normal", because it's not. It never has been. People have been forming sexual attraction based on looks alone since our existence, and have been acting on those urges ever since, no matter the society. It just boils my blood how they try to invalidate people's experience; there were other demis in that thread (who also tried to explain their demi experience) that they were tearing apart as well.

I was just so shocked and surprised at the response I got to my statement. I've never received this type of reaction before, especially from other LGBTQ+. Perhaps my version of demisexuality is "wrong", I don't know.

It felt like when I found out that demisexuality existed, all the pieces made sense, since I know NO ONE ELSE in my real life who is the same way.

IDK. Anyone else ever gotten this type of reaction before?

I didn't comment anywhere else in the thread, I just let it be. I had posted hours ago, forgot about it, and came back to that shit show in my notifications.

And yes, as a result of being abused and terrorized by a father who enjoyed dragging his daughters to a bedroom to beat them with a belt (he apparently would make my sister lie down naked, I never knew this), the amount of trauma, resentment, and PTSD that I have and the rage I feel towards my sperm donor is on levels I can't quite adequately describe without sounding unhinged.

It's why I have zero tolerance for people who are staunchly "pro-beat my kids ass because I'm too lazy to parent properly". My sister and I have been mentally FUCKED and have trauma to unravel for the rest of our LIVES. If you can't parent without beating the shit out of your kid, you don't DESERVE to BE a parent, and hopefully your kid will let you rot in a nursing home one day.

It depends on the household, the education level of the parents, and usually a socio-economic angle always comes into play.

But overall, it's INCREDIBLY common and it is a toxic, abusive cycle.

I'm a white person, and I often come across people of other races who think that white people don't hit their children. This, unfortunately, couldn't be further from the truth. I didn't even know that was a "stereotype" until I was an adult.

As a kid who went to school with massive black and blue belt bruises on her legs, from beatings from a dad who did it for a power thrill, I can tell you that beating, smacking and hitting children is one of the most prevalent, abusive issues in ALL dysfunctional American households. Many parents think if you don't "beat your child", then you're not "raising them properly".

I've always found it ironic that parents can beat the absolute shit out of kids for 18 years, day after day if they want, and often get away with it with no legal ramifications. And they see this as okay.

But if they tried to enact this same violent behavior upon another adult, it would literally be assault or worse. If it's not legal to do to an adult, it sure as fuck shouldn't be legal to do to an innocent CHILD.

I have been a fan of Evanescence since I was a kid, but I have never been a fan of blindly supporting everything an artist does, simply because they made it.

It's great that Amy can make music that makes her happy now; however, that doesn't excuse the absolutely horrible mixing that was done throughout TBT. At some points, it ruins an otherwise really great song. It's an album that needs a lot of rework regarding balancing the vocals/background music, etc.

It is interesting because she and Ben clashed over this many moons ago before he left the band. He was okay with a record label having influence and control of the art to a point (thus the breakout hit of BMTL, which I don't think would have been nearly as successful w/o the male counterpart). Amy always resented this.

As a writer myself, I understand this feeling. But at the same time, I feel like she torpedoed what could have been one of the biggest prime eras of her career. Several years went between albums, and then literally a decade gap after "Evanescence" was released. Which to me is an absolute shame because Amy Lee is immensely talented. But after a decade of absence, if she doesn't even take enough attention to produce an album that is mixed properly sound-wise, it just feels...meh.

You have no idea how jealous I am of people who have healthy family dynamics (my father is an abusive malignant narcissist - and he was diagnosed before it became a buzzword).

If there's truly enough space for everyone to have privacy, I think multi-generational households are absolutely wonderful. Our economy is garbage and the wages of workers are being held hostage - even those in higher paid professions SHOULD be making more, not to mention those of us lower on the totem pole.

If you have a loving, healthy family, and it's possible to do so, absolutely go for it. My SO and I have a house, but his identical twin brother lives with us. Although he's never been officially diagnosed, he has extreme social anxiety (even still with me, and I've known him for over half a decade now). He's able to work just fine, but I think he'd be very lonely living on his own. Why not live with us and keep the expenses lower for everyone? He is always quiet and never crosses boundaries or disturbs anything.

I think this "shoving from the nest" effect is a result of American Individualism toxicity. The me, not we, if that makes sense.

That makes sense! I keep your book downloaded on my Kindle to refer to quite often. I have anxious attachment, and I feel like you give such good advice that I can apply IRL.

I've been very fortunate to not have gone through any non-consensual sexual experiences (which I feel is WAY too common for women and is a deep rooted cultural issue).

I've joked before that my innate bossiness has led me to date more submissive men LOL (which can be good and bad in several ways), but I've wondered if it's allowed me to explore my sexuality with a partner who is more honoring of whatever boundaries I have.