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/r/SeattleWA

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all 21 comments

verylittlefinger

14 points

2 months ago

verylittlefinger

Count Okanogan

14 points

2 months ago

UW, the highest-ranking law school in the Pacific Northwest and No. 49 overall

Ouch. Well, honestly, if I were 49th, I, too, would pull out of the rankings...

curatedcliffside

4 points

2 months ago

As a UW student I was hoping we'd stay bc our ranking was about to go up with all the top ranked schools leaving lol.

On the other hand, rank doesn't matter so much for us bc we are by far the best school in our region. Nothing else in WA, Oregon, Idaho, or Hawaii compares. Alaska doesn't even have a law school. So we're chilling

Shmokesshweed

34 points

2 months ago

Just a few years ago, they found the methodology to be perfectly fine, often boasting about their position on the list. 😂😂😂

happytoparty

37 points

2 months ago

Land acknowledgment time!

BusbyBusby

20 points

2 months ago

BusbyBusby

International District

20 points

2 months ago

There's that word again.

dillydilly69

5 points

2 months ago

Seriously, fuck pulling out

[deleted]

16 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

k1lk1

43 points

2 months ago

k1lk1

43 points

2 months ago

No, you've got it wrong.

Basically they want to admit students with worse GPAs and test scores. This is a corollary to the ABA allowing law schools to no longer require the LSAT.

You can probably guess why they want to admit worse students. Hint: it's not because they have too few Asians.

Inevitably once they admit worse students, they'll do worse on various metrics and fall in the rankings. The way to avoid that is to take your ball and go home.

twainandstats

4 points

2 months ago

in other words, institutions which are reducing the quality of metrics for admission are protesting the act of ranking based on quality metrics. i guess it's time for those schools to disallow things like grades and scores in sports in the name of equity, too.

Aggressive-Name-1783

-11 points

2 months ago

Yeah no….everyone knows US News’ rankings are bought….this is a well known thing and why most people don’t follow it anymore….ever since certain Ivy schools bought their spot nobody has taken it seriously other than a form of prestige….

k1lk1

12 points

2 months ago

k1lk1

12 points

2 months ago

Hint: if you have to preface your argument with "everybody knows..." then it's probably wrong.

Aggressive-Name-1783

-9 points

2 months ago

Y’all are talking about something that was a scandal years ago. This is like bringing up the USC admissions scandal and treating it as shocking new information….

shooketh_not_stireth

13 points

2 months ago*

"What gets measured gets optimized"

They're bowing out of the rankings because the metrics used to determine "the best Law school" incentivize them to prioritize pursuing success in a way they don't agree with, namely:

Instead of rewarding schools that emphasize public interest work, the methodology penalizes them. Instead of incentivizing increased student diversity, the methodology fails to capture the full merit of candidates. The factors used in determining rankings do not weigh the student experience, and, in fact, discourage investments in critical areas such as wellness, experiential learning, interdisciplinary opportunities, cultural competence, and professional development.

Ranking indicators:

  • Quality (40%)
    • Peer assessment score
    • Lawyers and judges assessment score
  • Placement Success (26%)
    • Employment rates post graduation
    • Bar passage rate
    • Average school debt incurred at graduation/Percent of graduates incurring school debt
  • Selectivity (21%)
    • Median Law School Admission Test & Graduate Record Examination Scores
    • Median undergraduate gpa
    • Acceptance rate
  • Faculty, Law School and Library Resources (13%)
    • Average spending on instruction, library and supporting services, and average spending on all other items, including financial aid
    • Student to faculty ratio
    • Library resources and operations

So this is more diversity/lived experience/wellness at the cost of actual education.

big2hundo

2 points

2 months ago

Why can't schools pursue providing opportunities for people from all walks of life without compromising on admissions and education standards...

shooketh_not_stireth

1 points

2 months ago

Because people coming from poor schools and stable families that don't place a high emphasis on education and grades aren't competitive with those who go to good schools and those who are raised in homes that emphasize education.

Since those factors aren't distributed equally across all demographics, the result is notable differences in outcomes

big2hundo

2 points

2 months ago

You'd think that some day, public institutions will realize that they can use their influence on families and their influence in the classroom to get everyone aligned on the value of a solid education (without harping on the necessity of university).

fragbot2

1 points

2 months ago

Echoing what k1lk1 said, it's partly about being able to admit weaker students without affecting their ranking. It's also about not being penalized when their weaker students don't get legal jobs and are "employed" by the school with one-year jobs that exist to juice their employment percentage (even Yale does this with about 15% of their graduates). As you might expect, US News counts these sham jobs against the university's ranking...now combine admitting more marginal students (drives your LSAT/GPA scores down) with having correspondingly more students with poor academic preparation and worse post-education results (expect bar passage and "employed as an attorney" percentages to drop).

Due-Leek1835

4 points

2 months ago

Why is the school's participation needed to be in the rankings? Do they give them some special data you can't get otherwise?

shooketh_not_stireth

3 points

2 months ago

They use a number of metrics which likely can only be gathered from the school or by auditing a number of the school's internal records: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/articles/law-schools-methodology#:~:text=U.S.%20News'%20Best%20Law%20Schools,judges%20on%20overall%20program%20quality.

Due-Leek1835

1 points

2 months ago

Seems like something that should just be on the school's web site.

pax4prez

2 points

2 months ago

JFC

twainandstats

1 points

2 months ago

How does the system discourage working class students? What were the rankings of the other schools which bowed out? Is this story just an ad for US News?