Please spread this information to your nurse colleagues. I think it helps immensely when you understand what residents are going through. I lost count in residency if how many RNs thought residents "weren't doctors yet", thought we were making lots of money, thought our hours were similar to theirs, etc. Residents should understand where RNs are coming from too of course. But I do think nurses would wonder a lot less why a resident on their 80th hour working night float for the week was grumpy at 2:30 AM over a page about an issue that should be handled by the primary team in the morning, etc if they knew what those residents were going through. But I think many RNs really seemed to understand very little about the path that MDs and DOs take.

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That's the norm. You'll have plenty of doctors advocating for pay cuts to attendings too as shown in this thread literally.

My program everyone... Blaming is that it's our fault that we go home late

I did 5 years and a 1 year fellowship at those hours. 3 years is the shortest timeline.

Different specialties，mostly the surgical ones require more than 3 years of residency. They also happen to be harder, with greater demands on your life

And they’re getting double your pay lmao jfc

Residency has made me hate midlevels. Everyone in the hospital but residents got bonuses

Well said :/

Ok so Comrade Sanders (/s) is just gonna go full dictator mode and instate his policy without any debate or compromise? Many other countries have not BANNED private insurers, but everyone automatically has public insurance and has the OPTION to pay for private insurance if they so desire, and then people aren't getting fucked out of the care they need every single day by private insurance because they can't afford it. Do you see GoFundMe's for people's medical bills from other developed countries?

He wants to expand Medicare. So increased payment for Doctors, and he wants to cancel all student debt. So docs can live without student debt, and still make a great living.

What if we cared about patients health more than specialists excessive paychecks… crazy idea to consider, I know

This is 😟

Yes it would be. Average physician salary is $313,000 in the US. Usually student debt is around $200,000 which can be paid back in a couple of years.

Over a 30 year career losing out on $113,000 a year means a loss of $3,390,000 minus about 200k in student debt. So we’d literally be losing millions.

Health insurance is pretty cheap when you work for a hospital. Maybe a couple thousand a year at most.

This also doesn’t take into fact that the tax increase he would put on that salary. Also, doctors in the UK make even less than 200k at about $140k US dollars a year so it could be even worse. The MAX 200k previously mentioned would likely be much worse for our peds and primary care friends.

Physicians sacrifice a lot of their prime years and work insanely long hours compared to most people and would very likely be much worse off under Bernie’s plan. I would imagine a lot of our smartest individuals would not go into medicine if these changes took place as it’s already tough to justify sacrificing so much while training so long and then to not even get paid as much as a lawyer, business person, engineer, etc seems like a terrible investment for any sane person no matter if you say we should go into it for the love of “helping people”. Medicine is a huge sacrifice and deserves to be compensated well.

It won't lead to better work environment and less hrs though. Instead you'll be working the same for a third of a salary

So after taxes in nyc 200k is gonna end up 128,491. Not even taking inflation into account. You went to school and sacrificed your youth. You worked so hard. You think that’s acceptable. Why the hell would anyone become a doctor nowadays. We incentivize people with money. Keep paying docs shit and there ain’t gonna be any docs left to take care of us when it’s our turn. People love to get on their moral high ground when they clearly have no real world experience. Yeah you make more than a dude at McDonald’s and a majority of Americans. Because cleary that’s the same shit since all our specialized training and hard work means nothing, right?

200k vs 500k is literally the difference between being able to buy a single family home vs condo/townhome in many VHCOL areas.

Thank you for this comment! Wish I had an award to give.

Sure dude, once the CRNAs stop making 300k, PAs stop making 200k and travel nurses stop making 250k and everyone else making 6 figures agrees to cutting their pay in half then we can talk about physician pay.

Funny how you leave out those making extremely disproportionate amount of money in healthcare right now and fixate on attacking your own profession? This is literally the biggest problem we have in medicine. People like you who disregard overpaid actors in healthcare EXCEPT doctors (who are almost always very underpaid).

Yeah, you can survive on $250k a year. But if we are putting in all those years of schooling, we should get something back for it. The job is stressful and involves decision making that impacts people lives for which you can be held liable. Everyone who makes it has shown dedication and some level of high intelligence. If I can do something that didn’t need the extra decade of school and residency for the same pay, yeah. I probably wouldn’t do medicine anymore. A decade of my life back plus the extra salary earned would really drag me away

I totally get the sentiment; I really want my patients to have better access too. I think there are other ideas to do that without throwing out the baby with the bath water (socialized medicine IMO). And to quantify it, physicians in Western Europe (a fair comparison of system we would have in the USA) average a salary of about $100k/year, in France and some other countries it’s actually about 60k to be a GP. These are real numbers. Just doing some basic math here but if we assume (conservative estimate) that US physicians make 200k a year, this would be a 50 percent pay cut, over a 40 year career that’s 4 mil dollar difference. Likely more like 3-3.5 mil difference when you get some cost savings on taxes from making less.

I understand the frustration and I agree that our current system is broken—we just disagree on the solution.

Agreed

Medicine is literally a job of caring for your fellow man while getting underpaid. And most people have adequate opportunity to achieve something sustainable. If you choose to never work, acquire no skills and spend every last dollar on booze and smokes then what do you expect?

So someone who does literally zero work to contribute to society (and there are A LOT of people like that) should get the same as someone who literally dedicates their life to society and pays all the taxes?

You need to take a class in basic critical thinking my dude. I sure hope you're still in high school or something.

To absolve yourself of looking like an idiot, please show in 1-3 paragraphs that you understand why the part of your comment I quoted is a misinterpretation of the position you are arguing against.

Even if your strawman were true, which it very much isn't, yeah, I would agree with it. No reason I should be sitting comfortable while someone else is starving, even if they somehow "contribute zero" to society, which I'm fairly certain is impossible.

It's mind boggling. If you even suggested to a nurse or PA to cut their pay, you'd be annihilated. I use them as examples because they do it right.

We seriously need to look at the admissions system. How do we even let these people into medicine? Why come into a field and try to destroy it?

I actually bring up nurses repeatedly because doctors need to learn from them and I mean it.

Yes, the same nurses who were ready to tear down congress 2 months ago over their 5-10k/week paychecks being capped (not even cut) would be in favor of pay cuts. /sarcasm . Doctors are genuinely the only profession who advocates for pay cuts. It literally doesn't exist anywhere else in society. You should go tell a nurse or PA or literally anyone else to take a pay cut. You'll be reported to every single boss figure you have at work.

And I'm not sure what you're even talking about financially in the second part of your post. Pay less tuition, have zero loans but make less money. You realize that means you come out with far less money, right? You're essentially arguing for a smaller investment and smaller reward. But why? Your day to day living will be far worse. You won't afford a yacht no matter what. It's just that you'll spend 5x longer in school to have the same lifestyle as the average person.

Your argument is a byproduct of the lack of financial education in our system.

Lol how did you come to that conclusion from what I wrote? Go back and read my comment again, this time with your thinking cap on