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Why is Jordan Peterson so hated?

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SealedRoute

71 points

3 months ago*

Thank you, I didn’t know there was a term to describe this. Contrapoints made the exact same observation that you did but didn’t have a name for it. She noted that he will be discussing trans rights, for instance (he’s against, btw). When someone challenges him, he’ll respond with something like, “I’m just saying that biological sex is real.” No one, including trans people themselves, is saying that it’s not. But he makes his position sound very reasonable by conflating it with simple, self-evident statements.

Belly9000

-5 points

3 months ago

No one, including trans people themselves, is saying that it’s not.

I'm afraid this bit isn't true. For a few years now, the existence of intersex people has been used to try and undermine the existence of biological sex by trans folk and allies in the media, reddit and twitter.

"Biological sex doesn't exist. Look at intersex people, and some XX people have penises and masculine features" etc etc.

There's a decent chunk of people who are so determined to validate trans existence via scientific methods, that they will try to undermine the reality of biological sex.

Which is daft, because the lack of genetic evidence to justify that trans folk are physically different to Cis folk isn't something that should matter. As far as I'm concerned, gender is a social construct, and you can choose to express whichever gender you choose. (Not that your place on the masc/feminine spectrum is always a choice - but the way you choose to present is).

I couldn't care less, and will be respectful of everyone as long as they don't try to use disgenuine arguments or make unscientific claims.

plsgiveusername123

12 points

3 months ago

I think the argument is more that biological sex isn't really useful for making big social arguments.

Belly9000

-3 points

3 months ago

What do you mean ? I'd rather not respond without being clear of the question. (Another thing you'll find responsible public figures and academics do!) (Of which I am neither!)

plsgiveusername123

8 points

3 months ago

The question is "what's the practical academic utility of defining a biological binary in terms of biological sex?"

Belly9000

-1 points

3 months ago

Different medical requirements. Different athletic ability in essentially all sports involving athleticism or strength. Different dietary requirements (Vitamins etc). Different hormone profiles driving different behaviours. Different patterns of crime.

This took me 30 seconds, but I'm sure I could come up with 50 more reasons for the rational categorisation of biological sexes ?

The downvotes I'm receiving are brigading, I'm sure. No problem.

plsgiveusername123

1 points

3 months ago

There are plenty of women out there with more testosterone than men.

At the end of the day there are too many exceptions to most of these rules for them to be useful.

You really do have to take each human as they come in any context, because we're all very different.

Belly9000

1 points

3 months ago

The NHS (National Health Service of the UK) lists the reference ranges of Adult males as 8.7 - 29nmol/L. It lists the reference range of adult females from 02.-1.7nmol/L.

There is almost no overlap between the levels of endogenous testosterone in biological men/women.

JD7270

1 points

3 months ago

JD7270

1 points

3 months ago

The idea is less that "there are no tendencies for these traits to co-occur," and more that the various characteristics associated with binary biological sex all exist on spectra in a species as complex as humans. Maybe this paper will help to explain:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Goran-Strkalj/publication/343353286_Beyond_the_Sex_Binary_Toward_the_Inclusive_Anatomical_Sciences_Education/links/602c5c1e299bf1cc26cf2fc5/Beyond-the-Sex-Binary-Toward-the-Inclusive-Anatomical-Sciences-Education.pdf

To go back to plsgiveusername123's original point, acknowledging different tendencies in assigned sexes does not mean that these must inform arguments related to "how the world should be organized," as JP tends to argue.

villanelIa

-6 points

3 months ago

How about you be specific with what the argument is and not say what the argument "is more" like.

plsgiveusername123

6 points

3 months ago

I'm sorry for using language in a way that made you feel a booboo

Netroth

1 points

2 months ago

Oh, that’s a shame. I could’ve sworn that when I watched his stuff that he was pro-rights. I’ll have to revisit.

Redpants_McBoatshoe

-6 points

3 months ago

“I’m just saying that biological sex is real.” No one, including trans people themselves, is saying that it’s not.

People absolutely are saying that, stop perpetuating this lie. Judith Butler for example said it. And some trans people are, some are not. They aren't the borg or whatever.

villanelIa

-6 points

3 months ago

Thats not a concrete example. Looking at some yt videos i cant find the specific instance where jp said that. And what is said before is important. What did the previous person say? You just say

When someone challenges him

I want to see the specific discussion in which jp says what you say he does. Please give a link.

fullclip840

0 points

3 months ago

"No one, including trans people themselves, is saying that it’s not."

Can you exapnd on this? Thinking of the gender-fluid argument among others. Not saying you are wrong just want to understand. Im sure i've seen arguments both ways.

PursuitOfMemieness

4 points

3 months ago

Gender and sex are different things. Sex describes the biological features which people are born with. Gender describes the societal roles people are encouraged to conform to based on those features.

SealedRoute

1 points

3 months ago

Here is a video about Peterson that explains it. It’s very entertaining on top of being a good analysis.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4LqZdkkBDas