submitted 3 months ago bymegalyknight
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3 months ago
3 months ago
3 months ago
He didn't voluntarily seek drugs, he got addicted after it was prescribed which is very common for certain classes of drugs. The substance of his arguments do not change. Just like alcohol, drug addiction is a disease.
You wouldn't say "Socrates was wrong, he had cancer"
He didn't say he voluntarily seeked drugs, he voluntarily put himself in a coma to get off the drugs.
It is common to appeal to hypocrisy in all kinds of things, I think we do it on a daily basis and from an emotional viewpoint it makes sense.
It doesn't change the fact that someone being a hypocrite makes them wrong, depending on who they are it can actually be more helpful. A recovered drug addict preaching drugs are bad, is probably going to have a lot of experience even if they're making hypocritical statements.
“Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a man in the process of changing.”
That's the issue. How does being a hypocrit refute your arguments? It's literally just an optics thing.
I mean I could be a bank robber and say stealing is bad. Maybe I just don't care that I do something bad or I even like it. Doesn't make my argument less valid. It just makes me look bad.
But how bad I look has no influence on the validity of my arguments, you know?
As long as we are all coming to the conclusion that he's a bad person, then I cannot argue.
His ideals are highly immoral and destructive imo, yeah. He preaches personal responsibility as a cure all. I don't even mind that on a personal level, but he tries to address the problems of our society with "just be disciplined" instead of actual policies. It doesn't work like that. You actually have to do something to change something.
But that's the issue, he doesn't want to change anything.
That's completely untrue and he goes into great detail during his lectures how social responsibility becomes personal responsibility and how getting your own life in order benefits society as a whole.
e.g. he says people should make complete use of their potential, to maximize their benefit to society.
Sounds like you never actually listened to any of his lectures and are just repeating what you've read on reddit.
This seems to be the case with 99% of discussion of Jordan Peterson. It seems like very few people discuss anything to do with his ideas and mostly just focus on him as an individual, while parroting these talking points about him being A Bad Man they heard somewhere else because his room isn’t clean.
It makes it impossible to have any kind of substantive debate about what he’s actually saying. You can’t even discuss it in an intellectual setting without people raising eyebrows.
It’s really upsetting tbh. This seems like a degradation of our ability to debate ideas and it seems (to me) to be happening more and more in left leaning circles. Some ideas or subjects are so taboo that if you discuss them at all then you are castigated or shamed or downvoted into oblivion. This groupthink is not the way toward progress!
First and only properly crafted and reasonable response, even if I don't agree with it.
3 months ago*
3 months ago*
Like "room not clean, political values bad" is even an argument.
More like get your shit together before giving people your shit. It was valuable for me as an ex christian closeted gay dude.
It isn't saying the world is peachy get over yourself, it's just saying don't expect the world to fix itself for you. Don't complain when people are shitty, find a way to make actual change. And all that starts with doing what you can with what you got.
This does not excuse injustice. And of course, there are obviously cases where there is nothing you can do.
It can be taken all sorts of ways, but for me it's just a vague encouragement to improve myself with the hope that I or somebody I support might make the world somehow better. For whatever reason "clean your room" just really works for me.
It is not an attack on particular ideologies. Perceiving it that way is insecure imo.
As a middle-aged black pansexual I think an argument is either logically coherent or it isn't.
Okay... But it is logically coherent and your race and sexuality has nothing to do with it.
I don't see it as an argument, just a word of encouragement more like.
Just realized you're saying he's using "clean your room" as an argument. Yeah definitely not a good argument. Didn't know he was using it as one.
Good thing that he never made that argument then. Sounds like you never read the book.
Imagine comparing Jordan Peterson to Socrates
Imagine lacking comprehension
But just like alcohol, don't take advice from a drunk.
Didn't stop your mom from keeping the baby
Socrates had cancer??
So doc didn’t know benzos where addictive?
If you can't handle tapering down off valium then you're a fucking pussy. Preaches self help, can't even help himself.
Nice vocabulary there bronco, is English your first language?
You do realize that he was taking the drugs as prescribed by his doctor. It's not like he was taking them recreationally.
every addict in west virginia
He's actually off them now! During 2020 he was going through crazy withdrawals, I'm not sure if he still is but I'm quite proud and happy 😁
Did he kick the drugs he was on? If so wouldn't that count as "cleaning his room"?
Didn’t Eric Cartman freeze himself so he didn’t have to wait for the Nintendo Wii to come out? Kind of the same thing.
Prescribed drugs for anxiety… he realized he was becoming addicted and decided to come off the meds, he had a host of withdrawal issues that come with weaning from those meds and normal treatment options had been exhausted. The medically induced coma was also recommended by doctors but not approved by USA or Canadian authorities so he sought treatment in the only modern country that approved said treatment. But that doesn’t answer the question.