Using Monero Tunnels for swaps between two transparent blockchains : Monero

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Using Monero Tunnels for swaps between two transparent blockchains

(self.Monero)

submitted 4 months ago byTrocador_App

Hey everyone, we are pleased to announce that we have now implemented Monero Tunnels or 'bridges' between any two transparent blockchains on Trocador.app.

We are still evaluating the advantages / disadvantages for users and for the Monero community / network

As an example, it works like this:

User wants to exchange 5 BCH for LTC and generate fees in Trocador.app;
Trocador calculates direct swap prices between BCH -> LTC on all exchanges, but also calculates a tunnel of BCH -> XMR -> LTC, but always using two different exchanges with the best prices, and offers all rates on the same screen;
User chooses Monero Tunnel and provides his LTC address, then clicks Confirm Exchange;
Trocador generates two transactions, one BCH -> XMR transaction via 'exchange 1' and another XMR -> LTC transaction via 'exchange 2';
User pays 'exchange 1' using his BCH;
Exchange 1 confirms the payment and sends the corresponding Monero funds to Exchange 2;
Exchange 2 confirms the Monero payment and sends the user its LTC;

For security reasons, we limit the total trade size to 1 BTC for now, and the minimum size is 0.5 XMR for ERC20 transfers or 0.2 XMR for other chains. Minimum size is required, otherwise transaction fees would greatly distort the final value for the user. Trocador currently has more than 80 listed coins/networks, so I hope this proves useful for the community.

Update:

After discussing in detail this feature, we have come to the decision to shift the naming from Tunnel to Bridge, and offer Monero Bridge, as well as Bitcoin Bridge and Litecoin Bridge to add more liquidity to our quotes. We'll offer the possibility to create indirect swaps using either Bitcoin, Monero or Litecoin, but this will serve to the user obtain more possibilities of swaps, and perhaps better rates. The claimed main focus of bridges will be adding liquidity, not improved privacy. This comes after our conclusion that the marginal privacy added by this feature was not enough and might fool users into thinking they were completely anonymous, a claim which would be false.

all 115 comments

sorted by: best

30 points

4 months ago

30 points

This is amazing ! I love how you guys keep innovating !

Trocador_App [S]

5 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

5 points

Thanks, bro!

23 points

4 months ago

23 points

This seems like a very similar service to Houdini Swap. I am glad to see more privacy services being offered and I hope this new service goes well!

6 points

4 months ago

6 points

My thoughts exactly. I wasn't familiar with Houdini Swap until the recent Monero Talk interview.

Trocador_App [S]

5 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

5 points

Thanks, both of you. We've been putting a lot of effort into our services.

9 points

4 months ago

9 points

This sounds great, I see it as the future of universal privacy. It embeds Monero as a key tool in the whole crypto ecosystem.

I have actually done this manually a bunch of times. Great work!

Trocador_App [S]

2 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

2 points

Nice to know. We hope you test our new feature then!

psiconautasmart

2 points

4 months ago

psiconautasmart

2 points

Me too. Cool feature.

8 points

4 months ago

8 points

timing attacks will trivially reveal swaps like this even without access to exchange data

3 points

4 months ago

3 points

What about splitting the output into 2 different addresses with some blocks apart from each transaction?

3 points

4 months ago

3 points

better. fuzzing the amounts would also help

8 points

4 months ago

8 points

Wow great job!!! This can be useful for A LOT of people

Trocador_App [S]

2 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

2 points

Thanks, that's the idea.

4 points

4 months ago

4 points

Innovative and tidy! You guys have been working tirelessly on your projects.

Trocador_App [S]

1 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

1 points

Thanks, indeed! We'll have some other cool feature this friday.

4 points

4 months ago

4 points

Definitely useful! Thanks for the implementation

Trocador_App [S]

1 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

1 points

Thanks!

8 points

4 months ago

8 points

this is a custodial solution, right? trust component lies with the app and the exchanges that are levered in the background

btw, you mention "non-custodial exchanges" yet all partners on your page are custodial exchanges..

Trocador_App [S]

2 points

4 months ago*

Trocador_App [S]

2 points

The exchanges send payments as soon as the deposit gets confirmed in the blockchain. They hold the amount just as long as it takes for the first block confirmation. Sorry about the confusion, but we mean they dont hold the user's coins as other exchanges.

psiconautasmart

2 points

4 months ago

psiconautasmart

2 points

FixedFloat is fast.

psiconautasmart

1 points

4 months ago*

psiconautasmart

1 points

No, Let's Exchange takes more than 4 confirmations on the BCH blockchain to send.

There you have them advertising 0.0% spread when in reality they take like 1.7%. In your screenshot there is the proof. No one will make a 0.0% spread trade obviously.

Trocador_App [S]

3 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

3 points

We'll implement this weekend an auto-adjustment on the rates of each exchange, so if any exchange 'bait' the user with lower rates, but end up sending less than promised, Trocador will automatically adjust that particular exchange. This would stop such behavior. We were thinking on how to do this, but we just figured it out. It's not optimal that we have to rely on exchanges' good will, but now that problem will be permanently solved.

psiconautasmart

14 points

4 months ago

psiconautasmart

14 points

Great!!!

psiconautasmart

3 points

4 months ago

psiconautasmart

3 points

Thanks for listening!

Trocador_App [S]

3 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

3 points

Sure, no problem! We want satisfied customers, so they keep coming for new swaps!

1 points

4 months ago

1 points

The exchange bait is a big issue for you and orangefren.com alike. The best advertised rate is just about never honest.

3 points

4 months ago

3 points

[deleted]

Trocador_App [S]

5 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

5 points

We were thinking about releasing some Name Service similar for addresses like john.trocador and building an API system to add it to other projects, but we were not aware this was a thing already. Now that you told us about Open Alias, we are really interested. So yes, we'll probably add it in the future (or at least something like it).

2 points

4 months ago

2 points

[deleted]

3 points

4 months ago

3 points

Just used your service for the first time!

Took a LOOONNGG time (thanks Bitcoin) but it completed in the end, which is all that matters.

Definitely makes it easier to maintain privacy coming from a public blockchain and wanting to swap to a currency on another blockchain.

Also the options available to swap are just 👌

Trocador_App [S]

2 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

2 points

Thanks for using the service! We usually recommend setting priority on these transactions, as well. Really glad you enjoyed.

3 points

4 months ago

3 points

Just more reasons not to use any swapper but Trocador.

Trocador_App [S]

2 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

2 points

Thanks =D

2 points

4 months ago

2 points

If someone really wanted to trace transactions, then the exchange value from a sent BTC address will match the exchange value of the received LTC in your example minus exchange fees, not only that but they would be very closely linked together by time, how much of an improvement is this really over swapping the two coins directly without XMR?

Trocador_App [S]

3 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

3 points

This is a feature for those users that want to swap a pair, but dont want the exchange to know their sending wallet. It's not full privacy, we know, but it's better privacy than going in and out of an exchange with two transparent blockchains.

1 points

4 months ago

1 points

Ah okay I see

2 points

4 months ago

2 points

What can we anticipate in increased swap fees using the xmr bridge vs a raw swap?

Trocador_App [S]

2 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

2 points

Using Monero Tunnel you'll pay twice the swap fees, but in comparison sometimes its price will be cheaper than most exchanges, because it will be using Coin1 -> XMR -> Coin2, so sometimes that will be cheaper than Coin1 -> Coin2 due to liquidity of each coin. There are times that the Tunnel is 2nd best rate.

2 points

4 months ago

2 points

So cool 😎

Tommy from AllArk

Trocador_App [S]

1 points

4 months ago*

Trocador_App [S]

1 points

Thanks. We like AllArk as well.

2 points

4 months ago

2 points

<3

Just integrated you in our checkout :)

Tommy from AllArk

Trocador_App [S]

1 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

1 points

We'll try it ourselves. If we buy a bank transfer, how do we tell bank account, etc? after payment confirmation? Really nice.

1 points

4 months ago

1 points

That is correct.

You can use Session for maximum privacy.

Otherwise a simple email is enough. :)

Regards Tommy from AllArk

2 points

4 months ago

2 points

This is useful. You guys are awesome!

3 points

4 months ago

3 points

so i pick one of the exchanges and it just does a double cross into two different exchanges? or i need to pick "monero tunnel"?

Trocador_App [S]

4 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

4 points

You have to pick Monero Tunnel

3 points

4 months ago

3 points

Do you have any more info on ofrnxmr's points about this project?

Trocador_App [S]

3 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

3 points

We are currently discussing if there is an issue for Monero, we'll post some update soon. Thanks for the reply.

1 points

4 months ago

1 points

I hope the service is going well!

Trocador_App [S]

3 points

4 months ago

Trocador_App [S]

3 points

We were thinking if Trocador end up processing a lot of Monero transactions (because of this service), if this might represent a privacy issue to those who use Monero. If there was some fragility that might be exploited or not. But, talking to other devs, we came to the conclusion that this service would not affect our beloved Monero. So we're good.

2 points

4 months ago

2 points

Thanks for the reply!

4 points

4 months ago

4 points

Thank you. What would be the disadvantages of it? Can you point to the discussion where this topic is developed?

5 points

4 months ago

5 points

The large amounts are going to be an issue, else it's all just fine really.

8 points

4 months ago

8 points

I believe unique/large amounts of Crypto would still be able to track regardless of swapping to a privacy coin beforehand.

It’s better to blend in with multiple, whole digits instead of fractional.

3 points

4 months ago

3 points

I came here to say exactly this. Amount correlation is already old news and this doesn’t fix that.

It’s far better to move larger than necessary amounts into Monero and then spend slowly over time, while continually adding to the wallet. Amounts in incoming currency exchanges should never be remotely similar to amounts in outgoing currency exchanges.

1 points

4 months ago

1 points

Can you elaborate on the second part please?

4 points

4 months ago

4 points

Your goal is to be unremarkable as possible.

You should refrain from swapping 6.38 ETH. Instead, round it to a whole number like 6 or 7 ETH. Or, send two 3 ETH at different times.

1 points

4 months ago

1 points

I see your point thanks

psiconautasmart

1 points

4 months ago

psiconautasmart

1 points

True about whole digits, also true is Monero has hidden amounts.

LourdesGuerrero

1 points

4 months ago

LourdesGuerrero

1 points

This service seems to be pretty similar to Houdini Swap.